Welcome, Ibrehem (6th Place)

Actually, when you and I made the F4 with Jolanda and John. We were going to go through with it -- until Brook told us you were hiding idol clues from us and everything went to hell, lol. The second time, well... YOU were the one who told Tom we were considering targeting him!

I would say BJ not going along with not voting for Chris was mine and Tom's fault. The Chris boot was really our idea. I don't think anyone else really said much about it. I thought of how exactly to split the vote, but Tom kept saying we should all vote for Chris. So, idk.

No, because he DIDN'T have me fooled. I voted against him every time after the Jo boot, but no one else would until after the Gregg boot. And by then it was mostly just Bobby Jon. I can't believe you guys aren't more mad, honestly. And I never backstabbed, I lost because I wouldn't backstab.
And his game was not excellent. I do think BJ got what he deserved. Two eliminations where he was --extremely-- close to leaving. Because Tom played the majority of you guys to vote for him. Why? Because he was the only one that would go against Tom and that includes the people that were sucking up to Tom. :P

I think you're missing my point. I'm not saying you personally backstabbed anyone. You were on the bad end of those events a lot of times. BUT...

You're saying that you were serious about the F4 deal you were making with John and I. But you keep talking about these original alliances and deals you had with Chorotega. So let's say John and I were serious, and we agreed to the F4 deal, and I didn't give you an easy out of the deal by lying about the idol clues... what would you have done at the merge? You would have had to pick, right? You would have had to break your deals and pacts with either John and I or Tom and BJ. Right?

It's the exact same situation. It's lunacy to think that new alliances wouldn't have been formed after the swap. It was the only way to survive it really. And after the swap Tom and BJ made a Final 4 deal with Mia and Chris, and were also in an alliance with Ami as the fifth. When the merge came, they had to choose. They had to choose whether they wanted to honor their original deal, or stick with the new one. The only difference between what Tom and BJ did, is they picked different deals to honor (this was before Tom found out about Mia's plan to boot him and Chris got booted because he was playing like a maniac). Yet in your mind, BJ is noble and Tom is scum. Because BJ picked you over his other deal, and Tom picked the one that didn't include you. That's what it boils down to. And you may have been in the same situation if I wasn't an idol clue liar.

It just seems like when Tom backstabs someone, it is perceived as so much worse than when anyone of the rest of us do it. And I really think that boils down to the fact that people weren't expecting it from him because he seemed likable and trustworthy. Or it could just be bitterness because you felt you didn't backstab anyone in the game. I get that. But remember.... you would have been in a very similar position if I wasn't lying to you the whole time on nuGuatuso and I really did want to work with you...

Concerning Bobby Jon and Tom "playing him against me" or something...when the merge hit, he and I practically stopped communication. Or at least there was a significant drop in our messages. We kept up with all "Yay Fourskins!" but I think he and I understood each other to the point of knowing we aren't going to the end together. We just never said it. Almost like a game of chicken

I understand your feelings against Tom, Ibe. I can't fully relate because how the game shaped out for me...he stuck by me when the votes came every TC. I'm a rare breed in this jury house

Actually, when you and I made the F4 with Jolanda and John. We were going to go through with it -- until Brook told us you were hiding idol clues from us and everything went to hell, lol. The second time, well... YOU were the one who told Tom we were considering targeting him!

I would say BJ not going along with not voting for Chris was mine and Tom's fault. The Chris boot was really our idea. I don't think anyone else really said much about it. I thought of how exactly to split the vote, but Tom kept saying we should all vote for Chris. So, idk.

No, because he DIDN'T have me fooled. I voted against him every time after the Jo boot, but no one else would until after the Gregg boot. And by then it was mostly just Bobby Jon. I can't believe you guys aren't more mad, honestly. And I never backstabbed, I lost because I wouldn't backstab.
And his game was not excellent. I do think BJ got what he deserved. Two eliminations where he was --extremely-- close to leaving. Because Tom played the majority of you guys to vote for him. Why? Because he was the only one that would go against Tom and that includes the people that were sucking up to Tom. :P

I think you're missing my point. I'm not saying you personally backstabbed anyone. You were on the bad end of those events a lot of times. BUT...

You're saying that you were serious about the F4 deal you were making with John and I. But you keep talking about these original alliances and deals you had with Chorotega. So let's say John and I were serious, and we agreed to the F4 deal, and I didn't give you an easy out of the deal by lying about the idol clues... what would you have done at the merge? You would have had to pick, right? You would have had to break your deals and pacts with either John and I or Tom and BJ. Right?

It's the exact same situation. It's lunacy to think that new alliances wouldn't have been formed after the swap. It was the only way to survive it really. And after the swap Tom and BJ made a Final 4 deal with Mia and Chris, and were also in an alliance with Ami as the fifth. When the merge came, they had to choose. They had to choose whether they wanted to honor their original deal, or stick with the new one. The only difference between what Tom and BJ did, is they picked different deals to honor (this was before Tom found out about Mia's plan to boot him and Chris got booted because he was playing like a maniac). Yet in your mind, BJ is noble and Tom is scum. Because BJ picked you over his other deal, and Tom picked the one that didn't include you. That's what it boils down to. And you may have been in the same situation if I wasn't an idol clue liar.

It just seems like when Tom backstabs someone, it is perceived as so much worse than when anyone of the rest of us do it. And I really think that boils down to the fact that people weren't expecting it from him because he seemed likable and trustworthy. Or it could just be bitterness because you felt you didn't backstab anyone in the game. I get that. But remember.... you would have been in a very similar position if I wasn't lying to you the whole time on nuGuatuso and I really did want to work with you...

I thought the deal we had between us Jo and John was to be the F4 of --NuGuatuso-- not the whole game? The deal was... If you guys voted for Brook (who wasn't helping in challenges) we promised to vote Gregg next if we lost. But then Brook told us you guys weren't going to vote for Brook but vote for me instead (which you did!)

Oh, Tom was also in the F4 deal with Mia and Chris? Big surprise. Well, what can I say, the Chorotega thing was decided before the first swap, but when Tom came to us at the merge saying we were gonna go through with it -- we expected he would. Actually, I never really found Tom that likable.


Also I made this:

Actually, when you and I made the F4 with Jolanda and John. We were going to go through with it -- until Brook told us you were hiding idol clues from us and everything went to hell, lol. The second time, well... YOU were the one who told Tom we were considering targeting him!

I would say BJ not going along with not voting for Chris was mine and Tom's fault. The Chris boot was really our idea. I don't think anyone else really said much about it. I thought of how exactly to split the vote, but Tom kept saying we should all vote for Chris. So, idk.

No, because he DIDN'T have me fooled. I voted against him every time after the Jo boot, but no one else would until after the Gregg boot. And by then it was mostly just Bobby Jon. I can't believe you guys aren't more mad, honestly. And I never backstabbed, I lost because I wouldn't backstab.
And his game was not excellent. I do think BJ got what he deserved. Two eliminations where he was --extremely-- close to leaving. Because Tom played the majority of you guys to vote for him. Why? Because he was the only one that would go against Tom and that includes the people that were sucking up to Tom. :P

I think you're missing my point. I'm not saying you personally backstabbed anyone. You were on the bad end of those events a lot of times. BUT...

You're saying that you were serious about the F4 deal you were making with John and I. But you keep talking about these original alliances and deals you had with Chorotega. So let's say John and I were serious, and we agreed to the F4 deal, and I didn't give you an easy out of the deal by lying about the idol clues... what would you have done at the merge? You would have had to pick, right? You would have had to break your deals and pacts with either John and I or Tom and BJ. Right?

It's the exact same situation. It's lunacy to think that new alliances wouldn't have been formed after the swap. It was the only way to survive it really. And after the swap Tom and BJ made a Final 4 deal with Mia and Chris, and were also in an alliance with Ami as the fifth. When the merge came, they had to choose. They had to choose whether they wanted to honor their original deal, or stick with the new one. The only difference between what Tom and BJ did, is they picked different deals to honor (this was before Tom found out about Mia's plan to boot him and Chris got booted because he was playing like a maniac). Yet in your mind, BJ is noble and Tom is scum. Because BJ picked you over his other deal, and Tom picked the one that didn't include you. That's what it boils down to. And you may have been in the same situation if I wasn't an idol clue liar.

It just seems like when Tom backstabs someone, it is perceived as so much worse than when anyone of the rest of us do it. And I really think that boils down to the fact that people weren't expecting it from him because he seemed likable and trustworthy. Or it could just be bitterness because you felt you didn't backstab anyone in the game. I get that. But remember.... you would have been in a very similar position if I wasn't lying to you the whole time on nuGuatuso and I really did want to work with you...

I thought the deal we had between us Jo and John was to be the F4 of --NuGuatuso-- not the whole game? The deal was... If you guys voted for Brook (who wasn't helping in challenges) we promised to vote Gregg next if we lost. But then Brook told us you guys weren't going to vote for Brook but vote for me instead (which you did!)

Oh, Tom was also in the F4 deal with Mia and Chris? Big surprise. Well, what can I say, the Chorotega thing was decided before the first swap, but when Tom came to us at the merge saying we were gonna go through with it -- we expected he would. Actually, I never really found Tom that likable.


Also I made this:

What would be the point of making a Final Guatuso Four deal?????

I'm not trying to rip on you. I can get that if you feel you played a clean game and someone else lied and screwed you over, you would be pissed about it. I just really don't believe that Tom did anything worse than a lot of other people did, ESPECIALLY Bobby Jon.

That's all. Nice chop.

I thought the deal we had between us Jo and John was to be the F4 of --NuGuatuso-- not the whole game? The deal was... If you guys voted for Brook (who wasn't helping in challenges) we promised to vote Gregg next if we lost. But then Brook told us you guys weren't going to vote for Brook but vote for me instead (which you did!)

Oh, Tom was also in the F4 deal with Mia and Chris? Big surprise. Well, what can I say, the Chorotega thing was decided before the first swap, but when Tom came to us at the merge saying we were gonna go through with it -- we expected he would. Actually, I never really found Tom that likable.


Also I made this:

What would be the point of making a Final Guatuso Four deal?????

I'm not trying to rip on you. I can get that if you feel you played a clean game and someone else lied and screwed you over, you would be pissed about it. I just really don't believe that Tom did anything worse than a lot of other people did, ESPECIALLY Bobby Jon.

That's all. Nice chop.

IF WE HAD A F4 DEAL WHAT WERE YOU DOING VOTING FOR ME???

I lied.

I want to clear something up for everyone: the Jolanda/Gregg boots were all me. I just needed Tom to jump on board.

Tom originally wanted to take just Ami and I to the final 8 with all 6 remaining Chorotegans after Caryn, but since I wanted to make a Guatuso power move, I initiated Jolanda and Gregg's boots. First he took out Chris, and then I got my way. Those were the only boots that I was legitimately in control of.

I want to clear something up for everyone: the Jolanda/Gregg boots were all me. I just needed Tom to jump on board.

Tom originally wanted to take just Ami and I to the final 8 with all 6 remaining Chorotegans after Caryn, but since I wanted to make a Guatuso power move, I initiated Jolanda and Gregg's boots. First he took out Chris, and then I got my way. Those were the only boots that I was legitimately in control of.

Yeah you said this, but point blank he went along with it and he was the dictator for our side, telling us what was going on, etc.

I see. What exactly did he tell you about the Jolanda boot? He told you that it was Lisa, right?

I see. What exactly did he tell you about the Jolanda boot? He told you that it was Lisa, right?

No, he just blindsided Jolanda and never spoke to me until I spoke to him.
Which was to end our pact, which he yelled at me for doing and then told me he was going to blindside Gregg (my only alliance member left) next.

...

Oh, but yeah we assumed it was Lisa.

I see. What exactly did he tell you about the Jolanda boot? He told you that it was Lisa, right?

And he wasn't 100% sold on voting out Jo. He told me he was voting out Lisa too and if I wanted to vote with the majority, to vote for her. After he had told you he was 100% voting out Jo.

And we actually almost tried to change it to BJ instead of Gregg, but he was afraid Kim wouldn't go for it so we stuck with the Gregg plan. And something else crazy happened that night that I can't remember. There was definitely a point in time that he was going to tell you BJ instead of Gregg, but then it flipped back. I can't exactly remember what happened but then we were like OK, we'll just vote Gregg off. I think Kim may have been freaking out or something and refused to do it.

Well, I'm not what you would call bitter, but here is how I saw Tom's game up to my boot.

At the beginning, Tom and I were really close (so I thought). Ibe, Gregg, and I had a final 3 deal, which we were planning on sticking with to the end (even up to my boot). We decided we needed two more members of the alliance, we picked Bobby Jon because he seemed pretty cool, and Tom, because him and I were apparently hitting it off. For that first weekend, Tom and I talked nonstop, I felt a real bond forming between us. He said that is we ever swap or anything, we will do what we need to do on our seperate tribes, then come back together. So, when the merge came along, the first thing Tom told me was "Are you, Ibe, and Gregg planning on sticking with BJ and I to the final 5 like we planned?" And, the three of us had to go along with it, even if we didn't want to. (But we did, it was our plan to go back to BJ and Tom all along). So, he said that the boot order would be something like:
12. Caryn
11/10. Chad/Ami
9. Lisa
8/7. Chris/Mia
6. Kim, which would make our original alliance the final 5.

So, I had no choice but to believe him, we were talking about how cool it would be if an alliance from day 1 made it to the end. And we probably would have, if Tom wasn't so close to Mia because of the John lie (apparently that's how you guys got close, from what I've read). I was planning on taking out Tom and BJ in F4 and 5, taking my original alliance of Gregg and Ibe to the end. So, the Caryn boot came along, then the Chris boot, (which was basically Ibe's idea with my help). So, we planned on getting rid of Lisa next. I remember reading, the night that I left that we all said we locked in our votes for Lisa, except for Kim and Tom. (To this point, Tom's been real distant from us). So then I got booted, and we all know what happened after that.

I'm not mad at the fact that I got backstabbed by Tom, I'm really not. I probably would have done the same thing in his position. But I'm angry about the WAY he did it. He promised me at the beginning of the game that we would stick together (the pact I had with him that Ibe mentioned), and kept doing so in the merge. If he was going to betray me, he shouldn't have tried to be my friend. What would I have done? I literally had no options because it was 8 NuCho vs. 4 NuGuat, and Chad probably didn't trust me. So he didn't have to lead me on, thinking I was safe. That pissed me off.

Kim told me she really wanted to vote out Ibrehem instead of Gregg because Ibe was much bigger a threat. I assume Tom (or someone) talked her out of it?

I think Ibe had immunity. Didn't he? Or else he would have been the next target. He won right after Jo was booted.

I think Ibe had immunity. Didn't he? Or else he would have been the next target. He won right after Jo was booted.

Hmm, maybe I'm mixing up the boots then. I do recall her bringing up Ibrehem instead of Gregg though

Well, I'm not what you would call bitter, but here is how I saw Tom's game up to my boot.

At the beginning, Tom and I were really close (so I thought). Ibe, Gregg, and I had a final 3 deal, which we were planning on sticking with to the end (even up to my boot). We decided we needed two more members of the alliance, we picked Bobby Jon because he seemed pretty cool, and Tom, because him and I were apparently hitting it off. For that first weekend, Tom and I talked nonstop, I felt a real bond forming between us. He said that is we ever swap or anything, we will do what we need to do on our seperate tribes, then come back together. So, when the merge came along, the first thing Tom told me was "Are you, Ibe, and Gregg planning on sticking with BJ and I to the final 5 like we planned?" And, the three of us had to go along with it, even if we didn't want to. (But we did, it was our plan to go back to BJ and Tom all along). So, he said that the boot order would be something like:
12. Caryn
11/10. Chad/Ami
9. Lisa
8/7. Chris/Mia
6. Kim, which would make our original alliance the final 5.

So, I had no choice but to believe him, we were talking about how cool it would be if an alliance from day 1 made it to the end. And we probably would have, if Tom wasn't so close to Mia because of the John lie (apparently that's how you guys got close, from what I've read). I was planning on taking out Tom and BJ in F4 and 5, taking my original alliance of Gregg and Ibe to the end. So, the Caryn boot came along, then the Chris boot, (which was basically Ibe's idea with my help). So, we planned on getting rid of Lisa next. I remember reading, the night that I left that we all said we locked in our votes for Lisa, except for Kim and Tom. (To this point, Tom's been real distant from us). So then I got booted, and we all know what happened after that.

I'm not mad at the fact that I got backstabbed by Tom, I'm really not. I probably would have done the same thing in his position. But I'm angry about the WAY he did it. He promised me at the beginning of the game that we would stick together (the pact I had with him that Ibe mentioned), and kept doing so in the merge. If he was going to betray me, he shouldn't have tried to be my friend. What would I have done? I literally had no options because it was 8 NuCho vs. 4 NuGuat, and Chad probably didn't trust me. So he didn't have to lead me on, thinking I was safe. That pissed me off.

I can understand that Jo. My opinion, although Mia disagrees, is that he really was flip flopping and wavering back and forth on the decision. Although I do think he should have told you once he actually decided to do it.

I think Ibe had immunity. Didn't he? Or else he would have been the next target. He won right after Jo was booted.

I just checked. You won Immunity for Gregg's boot.

I think Ibe had immunity. Didn't he? Or else he would have been the next target. He won right after Jo was booted.

Hmm, maybe I'm mixing up the boots then. I do recall her bringing up Ibrehem instead of Gregg though

Could have been before Ibe won the IC. There was talk the day before Gregg actually got booted on who should go next.

I think Ibe had immunity. Didn't he? Or else he would have been the next target. He won right after Jo was booted.

I just checked. You won Immunity for Gregg's boot.

Then why the fuck did we vote Gregg out?

I remember I personally wanted him gone because I was so frigging tired of his antics he was making me insane.